Discussion:
Hillary Clinton Makes Racist Joke - NBC
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Lindsay
2004-01-07 02:26:22 UTC
Permalink
Where's the outrage??

------------------------------------------------------------

Hillary Clinton Regrets Gandhi Joke
Hillary Clinton Says She Regrets Joking That Gandhi Used to Run a Gas
Station in St. Louis

The Associated Press

ST. LOUIS Jan. 6 - Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton apologized for joking
that Mahatma Gandhi used to run a gas station in St. Louis, saying it
was "a lame attempt at humor."
The New York Democrat made the remark at a fund-raiser Saturday.
During an event here for Senate candidate Nancy Farmer, Clinton
introduced a quote from Gandhi by saying, "He ran a gas station down
in St. Louis."

After laughter from many in the crowd of at least 200 subsided, the
former first lady continued, "No, Mahatma Gandhi was a great leader of
the 20th century." In a nod to Farmer's underdog status against
Republican Sen. Kit Bond, Clinton quoted the Indian independence
leader as saying: "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then
they fight you, then you win."

The director of a U.S. center devoted to Gandhi's teachings said the
remarks amounted to stereotyping and were insensitive.

After being approached by The Associated Press to clarify the remarks,
Clinton suggested in a statement late Monday that she never meant to
fuel the stereotype often used as a comedic punch line that certain
ethnic groups run America's gas stations.

"I have admired the work and life of Mahatma Gandhi and have spoken
publicly about that many times," Clinton said. "I truly regret if a
lame attempt at humor suggested otherwise."

Michelle Naef, administrator of the M.K. Gandhi Institute for
Nonviolence, a Memphis, Tenn.-based organization founded in 1991 by a
Gandhi grandson, credited Clinton and her husband, former President
Clinton, with long having "supported the Gandhi message." But she said
Saturday's remarks "could be incredibly harmful."

"I don't think she was, in any way, trying to demean Mahatma Gandhi,"
Naef said. "To be generous to her, I would say it was a poor attempt
at humor. Perhaps I'm overly sensitive, but I find it offensive when
people use stereotypes in that way."
Patrick1765
2004-01-07 02:35:12 UTC
Permalink
Date: 1/6/2004 9:26 PM Eastern Standard Time
Where's the outrage??
Don't you know by now, democrats are immune from being racist, just like black
people are. It's some unwritten rule that we on the right play along with.
Jim Mitchell
2004-01-07 02:50:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Patrick1765
Date: 1/6/2004 9:26 PM Eastern Standard Time
Where's the outrage??
Don't you know by now, democrats are immune from being racist, just like black
people are. It's some unwritten rule that we on the right play along with.
The outcry locally was pretty loud, and St. Louis is a reasonably Democratic
city (if not exactly liberal anymore). It was a very stupid thing to say,
and a perfect example of the Clintons' patronizing and aloof mentality.
StandOnIt430
2004-01-07 02:46:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lindsay
Where's the outrage??
Well, she was forced to apologize. That's the usual fallout from these kind of
jokes.
Dave
"They made their choices and they'll never know. What it means to steal, to
cheat, to lie. What it's like to live and die."
--Bruce Springsteen
Steve Leibowitz
2004-01-07 02:54:22 UTC
Permalink
And here I thought there would be about a 6 gig file of stuff. Yup, never
liked Hill my own self, never a bother to me when I see her squirm. Outrage
can also be expressed for both MoveOn.org and Ralph Peters, NY Post
Columnist. MoveOn has been running a competition to see who could come up
with the best anti-Bush ad. Two of the entries posted used Hitler
comparisons, they were pulled, but MoveOn had to admit they were there in
the first place, regardless of being eventually pulled. Peters likened the
tactics of Dean supporters to Hitler's Brownshirts and Goebbels. It just
keeps raining things that suck.
http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/4965.htm
Post by Lindsay
Where's the outrage??
------------------------------------------------------------
Hillary Clinton Regrets Gandhi Joke
Hillary Clinton Says She Regrets Joking That Gandhi Used to Run a Gas
Station in St. Louis
The Associated Press
ST. LOUIS Jan. 6 - Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton apologized for joking
that Mahatma Gandhi used to run a gas station in St. Louis, saying it
was "a lame attempt at humor."
The New York Democrat made the remark at a fund-raiser Saturday.
During an event here for Senate candidate Nancy Farmer, Clinton
introduced a quote from Gandhi by saying, "He ran a gas station down
in St. Louis."
After laughter from many in the crowd of at least 200 subsided, the
former first lady continued, "No, Mahatma Gandhi was a great leader of
the 20th century." In a nod to Farmer's underdog status against
Republican Sen. Kit Bond, Clinton quoted the Indian independence
leader as saying: "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then
they fight you, then you win."
The director of a U.S. center devoted to Gandhi's teachings said the
remarks amounted to stereotyping and were insensitive.
After being approached by The Associated Press to clarify the remarks,
Clinton suggested in a statement late Monday that she never meant to
fuel the stereotype often used as a comedic punch line that certain
ethnic groups run America's gas stations.
"I have admired the work and life of Mahatma Gandhi and have spoken
publicly about that many times," Clinton said. "I truly regret if a
lame attempt at humor suggested otherwise."
Michelle Naef, administrator of the M.K. Gandhi Institute for
Nonviolence, a Memphis, Tenn.-based organization founded in 1991 by a
Gandhi grandson, credited Clinton and her husband, former President
Clinton, with long having "supported the Gandhi message." But she said
Saturday's remarks "could be incredibly harmful."
"I don't think she was, in any way, trying to demean Mahatma Gandhi,"
Naef said. "To be generous to her, I would say it was a poor attempt
at humor. Perhaps I'm overly sensitive, but I find it offensive when
people use stereotypes in that way."
---
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Dan
2004-01-07 03:06:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Leibowitz
MoveOn has been running a competition to see who could come up
with the best anti-Bush ad.
The controversy is a shame, as some of those ads were really cool. Here are a
few I particularly liked:

http://www.bushin30seconds.org/view/06_large.shtml

http://www.bushin30seconds.org/view/05_large.shtml

http://www.bushin30seconds.org/view/09_large.shtml



Dan


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Charlie Board
2004-01-07 03:54:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan
Post by Steve Leibowitz
MoveOn has been running a competition to see who could come up
with the best anti-Bush ad.
The controversy is a shame, as some of those ads were really cool. Here are a
http://www.bushin30seconds.org/view/06_large.shtml
http://www.bushin30seconds.org/view/05_large.shtml
http://www.bushin30seconds.org/view/09_large.shtml
I can't recall a national Democratic candidate ever running
an ad that would be as effective as those would. I just
hope whoever gets the nomination has the balls to go after
Bush with all guns blazing like this.

I liked these, too:
http://www.bushin30seconds.org/view/10_large.shtml

http://www.bushin30seconds.org/view/11_large.shtml
(run regularly, this one would singlehandedly put
states like North Carolina back into play)
Lindsay
2004-01-07 04:03:08 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 03:54:23 GMT, Charlie Board
Post by Charlie Board
I can't recall a national Democratic candidate ever running
an ad that would be as effective as those would. I just
hope whoever gets the nomination has the balls to go after
Bush with all guns blazing like this.
This proves how totally clueless you are about politics. Going after
Bush like that would backfire. The Dem's hopes would be gone in 30
seconds.
Chuck
2004-01-07 09:20:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lindsay
This proves how totally clueless you are about politics. Going after
Bush like that would backfire. The Dem's hopes would be gone in 30
seconds.
Shhhhhhh.......
Charlie Board
2004-01-08 01:12:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lindsay
On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 03:54:23 GMT, Charlie Board
Post by Charlie Board
I can't recall a national Democratic candidate ever running
an ad that would be as effective as those would. I just
hope whoever gets the nomination has the balls to go after
Bush with all guns blazing like this.
This proves how totally clueless you are about politics. Going after
Bush like that would backfire. The Dem's hopes would be gone in 30
seconds.
Not a chance. Pulling punches is how the Democrats have
lost the Senate and the House and damn near lost the
last Presidential election. Not pulling punches is how
the Republicans have done the opposite. The party has
to learn the lesson proven over & over & over again that
no matter how much the public *says* it doesn't want these
kinds of ads, they WORK.
Lindsay
2004-01-08 02:55:46 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 01:12:24 GMT, Charlie Board
Post by Charlie Board
Post by Lindsay
On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 03:54:23 GMT, Charlie Board
Post by Charlie Board
I can't recall a national Democratic candidate ever running
an ad that would be as effective as those would. I just
hope whoever gets the nomination has the balls to go after
Bush with all guns blazing like this.
This proves how totally clueless you are about politics. Going after
Bush like that would backfire. The Dem's hopes would be gone in 30
seconds.
Not a chance. Pulling punches is how the Democrats have
lost the Senate and the House and damn near lost the
last Presidential election. Not pulling punches is how
the Republicans have done the opposite. The party has
to learn the lesson proven over & over & over again that
no matter how much the public *says* it doesn't want these
kinds of ads, they WORK.
LOL!! Go to work for the Dems, please! ;-)
Dan
2004-01-07 04:08:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charlie Board
I can't recall a national Democratic candidate ever running
an ad that would be as effective as those would.
Liked this one, too:

http://www.bushin30seconds.org/view/01_large.shtml

Dan


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jimmyconway75
2004-01-07 05:46:23 UTC
Permalink
Dan wrote:

<<<The controversy is a shame, as some of those ads were really cool. Here are
a few I particularly liked: http://www.bushin30seconds.org/view/06_large.shtml
http://www.bushin30seconds.org/view/05_large.shtml
http://www.bushin30seconds.org/view/09_large.shtml>>>

The Demon Deacon fan wrote:

<<<I can't recall a national Democratic candidate ever running an ad that would
be as effective as those would. I just hope whoever gets the nomination has
the balls to go after Bush with all guns blazing like this. I liked these,
too: http://www.bushin30seconds.org/view/10_large.shtml
http://www.bushin30seconds.org/view/11_large.shtml (run regularly, this one
would singlehandedly put states like North Carolina back into play)>>>

Gotta disagree with my Democratic brethren here. Great advertising captures
the imagination and inspires affirmative behavior. None of those spots, imho,
compel any positive action...there's no poetry, no shining city on a hill, no
brave new world, no new frontier...just negativity. Admittedly, I haven't
looked at all the spots on the website, just the ones posted here. Effective
campaign spots, imho, need to be inspiring...not dispiriting. The party needs
positive ads that show what Democrats will do to solve the problems talked
about in those ads that you've linked here.

BP (i did, however, find the child labor ad pretty good...that one has an
unexpected visual -- kids doing factory labor -- and is effective without
whining)
JoeSchwind
2004-01-07 06:00:24 UTC
Permalink
<< None of those spots, imho, compel any positive action...there's no poetry,
no shining city on a hill, no brave new world, no new frontier...just
negativity. >>

Then those adds *do* capture the current state of the Democratic Party. For
three years they've done little more than criticize what Bush is doing while
offering little or nothing in the way of coherent alternatives. Getting their
asses kicked in the '02 mid terms taught them nothing, maybe another pummeling
next November will....
Henry Porter
2004-01-07 06:21:31 UTC
Permalink
website, just the ones posted here. Effective campaign spots, imho,
need to be inspiring...not dispiriting. The party needs positive ads
that show what Democrats will do to solve the problems talked about in
those ads that you've linked here.
Fair enough, but the ads you're talking about would be for a different
contest entirely. The contest at Moveon.org was specifically for "ads that
tell the truth about George Bush's policies."

The candidates are already running their own "positive vision" type ads in
the states currently in play (Iowa and New Hampshire) and such ads will
certainly be a part of the general election campaign. I suppose it would
be nice to have a contest also for that sort of thing, just so maybe we'd
see something innovative, but those ads by their nature are essentially
supposed to be the same old comfortable stuff.

HP
Denise
2004-01-10 08:11:02 UTC
Permalink
Subject: Re: Hillary Clinton Makes Racist Joke - NBC
Date: 1/7/2004 1:21 AM Eastern Standard Time
The contest at Moveon.org was specifically for "ads that tell the truth about
George Bush's policies." <

Interesting article about this in Salon

Ads that scare Karl Rove
MoveOn's contest to come up with the best Beat Bush ad campaign produces some
fire-breathing doozies -- and the Democrats should pay attention.

- - - - - - - - - - - -By Charles Taylor
Jan. 7, 2004 | The opportunistic flapdoodle that Republican National
Committee chairman Ed Gillespie has made of the two Bush/Hitler comparisons on
the left political-action group MoveOn's Web site is a slyly convenient ploy.
If Gillespie can convince the media that the ads, two of more than 1,500
submitted as part of MoveOn's "Bush in 30 Seconds" ad campaign contest, are
typical of all the responses, he'll be able to divert attention from other,
first-rate entries. The 15 finalists chosen by MoveOn show more wit and finesse
than that dum-dum equation. They range from the gibes of some world-class
smartasses to the accusations of the outraged to heavy-handed speechifying to
30-second elegies for a country gone horribly wrong. [To view any of the ads,
click here.] Among the wittiest of the lot is David Haynes' "Desktop," in which
we see a computer screen bearing the presidential seal and file folders labeled
"The Economy," "Civil Liberties," etc., being dragged into the trash. The
legend "What's Next?" is the capper. Just as good is Andrew Boyd's "Leave No
Billionaire Behind," in which a bunch of preschoolers break open their piggy
banks and hand over the cash to a corporate exec sitting at a kiddie-size
table.

Kids are also featured in "What Are We Teaching Our Children?" in which a
school debate becomes a parody of a stump speech (among other campaign
promises, the contestants pledge to question the patriotism of anyone who
questions them), and most effectively in Charlie Fisher's "Child's Pay."
Beautifully shot and striking just the right degree of irony, the ad shows kids
working as dishwashers, janitors, garbagemen and assembly line workers, leading
up to the legend, "Guess Who's Going to Pay for President Bush's $1 Trillion
Deficit?"

I could have done without Mark Vicente's "Imagine," which rehashes strident
clichés about the war being fought entirely at the behest of corporations --
one of the biggest obstacles to getting Bush out of office would be an
assumption that, despite the lies, he doesn't mean what he says. And though the
idea of Outpost 7's "In My Country" is unobjectionable (a man of Middle Eastern
descent talks about the oppressions in his country, which turns out to be --
surprise! -- the United States), the execution is annoyingly heavy-handed.

The lies Bush told in his State of the Union address are the taking-off point
for some of the most successful attacks, like Adam Feinstein and Rich Garella's
"Polygraph," in which -- as we hear the claims that Saddam sought uranium in
Africa -- a lie detector goes off the charts. And then there is Mike Cuenca's
devastating "Bring 'Em On," in which the same clips heard during "Polygraph"
are seen coming out of Bush's mouth while, in the lower right-hand portion of
the screen, a montage flies by of American soldiers killed in Iraq. "He lied.
They died" is the dead-perfect kicker.

For all the Republican ire any of these spots would raise if they made their
way onto TV, the Democrats would be unwise to ignore their effectiveness. If
the candidates collectively, or the nominee after he is chosen in July, cannot
match the bluntness of these ads, if he decides to take the high road (that is,
wuss out), then the party is going to find itself alienating the very people
who constitute one of the strongest forces that might gather to defeat Bush. If
I were Howard Dean or Wesley Clark, the impact and economy of these ads would
make me think twice before I shelled out big bucks to some media professionals.
If a contest for ads can solicit this response, and if the best can be so
effective, whoever the Democratic candidate is has an ad army waiting to be
ordered into combat.
From salon.com
END

Denise
(Who, like Dan, thought that one with the kids working and the one with small
photos of all our dead troops were particularly effective)

Lindsay
2004-01-07 04:00:43 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 02:54:22 GMT, "Steve Leibowitz"
Post by Steve Leibowitz
And here I thought there would be about a 6 gig file of stuff. Yup, never
liked Hill my own self, never a bother to me when I see her squirm. Outrage
can also be expressed for both MoveOn.org and Ralph Peters, NY Post
Columnist. MoveOn has been running a competition to see who could come up
with the best anti-Bush ad. Two of the entries posted used Hitler
comparisons, they were pulled, but MoveOn had to admit they were there in
the first place, regardless of being eventually pulled. Peters likened the
tactics of Dean supporters to Hitler's Brownshirts and Goebbels. It just
keeps raining things that suck.
Yep. Two ads out of 1500 that were submitted to Moveon.org were way
beyond rational political thought, and way out of rational political
bounds. Some at the site claim others are blowing things out of
proportion but they should never have put those two on the site for
public consideration. They should be taking 100% of the blame, and
quit trying to deflect the issue.

Some on this NG have tried to blame it on Dems, not me. I view
Moveon.org as a bunch of leftists and a bunch of Bush-haters, some
who may be Dems. But it's not a website of the Dem party.
Patrick1765
2004-01-07 04:16:58 UTC
Permalink
Date: 1/6/2004 11:00 PM Eastern Standard Time
Some on this NG have tried to blame it on Dems, not me. I view
Moveon.org as a bunch of leftists and a bunch of Bush-haters, some
who may be Dems. But it's not a website of the Dem party.
Moveon.org has been praised by democrat politicians many times. The fact that
they are not denouncing them for this tells you all you need to know about how
they feel about Bush being compared to hitler.
Tom Poynton
2004-01-07 13:49:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Patrick1765
Moveon.org has been praised by democrat politicians many times. The fact that
they are not denouncing them for this tells you all you need to know about how
they feel about Bush being compared to hitler.
Yeah well I wonder how many Reps have praised the Council for
Conservative Christians, Patrick? Take a look at their website..
JoeSchwind
2004-01-07 03:46:00 UTC
Permalink
<< Where's the outrage?? >>

There shouldn't be any. It was a dumb joke, told without malice or bigotry.
Clinton should just say so and let it be the end of the story.

Of course we all know that if a prominent Republican had said the exact same
thing the resident loons would be foaming at the mouth and calling for their
head on a stick.
Dan
2004-01-07 04:03:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by JoeSchwind
Of course we all know that if a prominent Republican had said the exact same
thing the resident loons would be foaming at the mouth and calling for their
head on a stick.
Well, it looks like she made a comment some found offensive, she was called out
for it, and she apologized. Story over before it hits the wires. One news
cycle and out---

If it had been a conservative, there would have been outrage from both sides.
Every conservative here would whine and whine about the idiot leftists being
upset over a meaningless comment, point out liberals who had said similar
things without repercussion, and lecture us all on freedom of speech. The
debate would go on for weeks, Balloon would post 30 columns supporting the
speaker and the comments, Joe would give the speaker Kudos in both singular and
plural forms, Lindsay would take a few swipes at the usual, BOTH Jans would
show up, each on a different side, Al Sharpton would be mentioned 200 times
whether he was involved or not, and we would have Anonymous Remailers posting
up the ass.

Then, after about 2 weeks, the public figure who made the comment in the first
place would make a tearful appology after receiving a terse phone call from
President Bush telling him to get this story out of the papers.

So I guess you're right--the resident loons would be out in full force.

Dan


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JoeSchwind
2004-01-07 04:16:17 UTC
Permalink
<< Well, it looks like she made a comment some found offensive, she was called
out for it, and she apologized. >>

But nobody should have been offended, unless they *wanted* to be offended.
Everybody's looking for victim status these days and an off the cuff joke is
more often than not just an excuse to get there. Are the people who were
offended by this also offended by Apu on "The Simpsons"? Sheesh, some people
need to get lives, that's for sure.

<< If it had been a conservative, there would have been outrage from both
sides. >>

I'm sure. It would have led the news casts tonight and been a special hour long
Nightline to boot. But we all know that aint happening, right? And we all know
why, right? Because 80% of the people who decide what's news in this country
are Democrats, and they don't shit where they eat.

How about if we let all politician's dumb jokes die just like this one? Not
just those uttered by Democrats.
doerz
2004-01-07 04:28:33 UTC
Permalink
"JoeSchwind"
Post by JoeSchwind
How about if we let all politician's dumb jokes die just like this one?
Not just those uttered by Democrats.>

I agree with this sentiment, Joe -- though I would have worded it as "all
dumb politicans' jokes" . . .

jd
Lindsay
2004-01-07 04:20:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan
Lindsay would take a few swipes at the usual
Actually, I have taken no swipes here. I only posted the article and
made a comment, in jest. I don't think she meant it they way it
seemed to come out. Big deal.

But it is interesting watching the double standard in play. ;-)
Dan
2004-01-07 04:41:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lindsay
But it is interesting watching the double standard in play. ;-)
I don't see a double standard, which was really my point.

My guess is that when you posted, you were thinking along the lines of Trent
Lott and the hot water he got into.

And I think if Lott would have realized he said something offensive, and owned
up to it and apologized, it wouldn't have been an issue. But it stretched on
because so many people felt the need to jump in and defend him.

I don't see a lot of people defending Senator Clinton.


Dan


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Denise
2004-01-07 04:27:42 UTC
Permalink
Subject: Re: Hillary Clinton Makes Racist Joke - NBC
Date: 1/6/2004 11:03 PM Eastern Standard Time
The debate would go on for weeks, Balloon would post 30 columns supporting the
speaker and the comments, Joe would give the speaker Kudos in both singular and
plural forms, Lindsay would take a few swipes at the usual, BOTH Jans would
show up, each on a different side<

Gee, then pleasantly, I would miss the whole thing.
and we would have Anonymous Remailers posting up the ass<
Nah. No petty "AR" posts unless I poke with that Ashcroft bad cop stick. That
directed frothing is totally predictable and not at all anonymous.

Denise
__________
"Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and then beat you
with experience" ~ Anonymous
Joe OB
2004-01-07 10:53:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan
Joe would give the speaker Kudos in both singular and
plural forms,
lol......a Kudo to Dan!!
Post by Dan
So I guess you're right--the resident loons would be out in full force.
I'm sort of fond of the whole Hillary thing :-) The older I get the more I like
her. I view her as the voice of the loyal opposition from far up in the
mountains. Not terribly relevant but interesting. Much like France and Germany.
D***@dancunningham.net
2004-01-07 19:01:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan
Post by JoeSchwind
Of course we all know that if a prominent Republican had said the exact same
thing the resident loons would be foaming at the mouth and calling for their
head on a stick.
Well, it looks like she made a comment some found offensive, she was called out
for it, and she apologized. Story over before it hits the wires. One news
cycle and out---
If it had been a conservative, there would have been outrage from both sides.
Every conservative here would whine and whine about the idiot leftists being
upset over a meaningless comment, point out liberals who had said similar
things without repercussion, and lecture us all on freedom of speech. The
debate would go on for weeks, Balloon would post 30 columns supporting the
speaker and the comments, Joe would give the speaker Kudos in both singular and
plural forms, Lindsay would take a few swipes at the usual, BOTH Jans would
show up, each on a different side, Al Sharpton would be mentioned 200 times
whether he was involved or not, and we would have Anonymous Remailers posting
up the ass.
Please, not everyone here is as dumb as you and Denise Melchior would
lead everyone to beleive. You really think people think that you
and La Melchior know nothing about the "Jan" or the anyonymous remailers?
Give us a break, Danny boi.


Nobody is going to apologize now, in two weeks or in two years.
Bill1255
2004-01-07 15:32:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lindsay
Where's the outrage??
I dunno, where? I thought it was humorous, albiet not something a
Senator should be saying in a public speech.

Does anyone know why there are so many Middle Easterners and
Easterners running convenience stores? Because there are, and it's not
racist to notice that. I assume it's a networking thing that has
expanded (maybe like MLM).
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